Fundraising Radicals [00:00:03]:
Welcome back for another episode of the Fundraising Radicals podcast. I'm your host, Craig Pollard. This is the final episode in Season 2, so we will be taking a short break but we will be back with new guests, new ideas, and new inspirations. We're looking forward to sharing details of our 3rd season later this year. Today, our exploration of global fundraising continues with Clemencia Osa, who has been in fundraising for 20 years. Clemencia is the campaign and coalition manager at Women's World Banking, which is a nonprofit with a global footprint that is dedicated to empowering women's entrepreneurship and thereby reducing community inequality. I know you're going to enjoy meeting Clemencia today, who will no doubt share what it takes in real life to be successful seeking grants in Africa and beyond.
Craig Pollard [00:00:56]:
Welcome to the Fundraising Radicals podcast, Clemencia Osa.
Clemencia Osa [00:01:01]:
Thank you, Craig.
Craig Pollard [00:01:03]:
Well, you have, just come off the the one of our panel events talking about grant seeking and proposal writing in East Africa. And and during that conversation, you talked to us about the importance of of patience when it comes to grant seeking. Can you tell me a little bit more about that and and and why you see that as as fundamental to as a, as
Craig Pollard [00:01:29]:
an attribute to be able to do grant seeking well?
Clemencia Osa [00:01:31]:
Thank you, Craig. In my experience, grant seeking is not something you do and then you you you relax on it. It is something you do consistently, and it is something you you strive to do well. So for me, I know that there are steps that you need to follow. First of all, you have to nurture a relationship, find linkages between your organization and the organization you want to, seek grants from. Specifically, look at the omission of that organization, the donor, and also your mission, and find the alignment. That is a process that will take quite some time because it is not something that you'll just look at it on paper. It will require a lot of research on the organization that you want to seek funding from and also knowing your organization well.
Clemencia Osa [00:02:18]:
So if you are somebody who is just joining an organization, for example, it means you also have to learn what your organization is about, what are the principles, and what are the factors that are to be considered when you are approaching a donor. So that's 1. 2, the reason why you'll need to be patient is sometimes the donor calendars may be different from your own calendar. And so, you may be seeking grants, for example, the Q1 of the year, but the donor calendar will be something to do with the last quarter of the year. So it means there'll be a lot of preparation you need to do before you finally seek the grants the way the donor wants. Yeah. Those are some of the things.
Craig Pollard [00:02:56]:
We only have so much power in this proposal business. Right? And it's important to to accept that reality.
Clemencia Osa [00:03:04]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:03:04]:
And so so you talk you talk there about the importance of of internal work, of understanding organizational priorities and strategic alignment because that is a major part of the work. Right? It is about helping your organization become fit and ready to receive funding.
Clemencia Osa [00:03:26]:
Yeah. I worked in an organization where, most of the funding was done through individual giving. Number of years. The organization is called Brook East Africa. It took a number of years. The organization is called Brook East Africa. It took more than 3 years to be grant ready because we did not arrange our case for proposal, case for support the way most donors would have liked. We did not have any experience with any donor funding in that particular organization.
Clemencia Osa [00:03:56]:
And so it took quite a lot of time to put the finances together, the governance, the mission, the stewardship plans. So it's really something that you need. It's an art and a science, so you need to really balance your act and make sure that, for you to be grant ready, you look at all the nuts and bolts and you fix them before an organization can be attracted. Craig, I believe that, you don't have to look for funding. Funding can look for you. So part of being grant ready is making sure that your organization is branded and also you are, speaking the impact you are creating in a way that resonates with most donor organizations.
Craig Pollard [00:04:38]:
I like that idea. Right? That that it's it's not just about donors aren't there out there. I think this is one of the big enduring myths in fundraising that donors are just sort of out there waiting for the perfect proposal or or, you know, fundraising is something that's done externally. It's it's it's out there, and we need to bring it in here. And my my feeling is that, actually, this is about fundraising. Big donations aren't found. They're sort of grown, right, in these places between, you know, strategically aligned organizations over time, nurtured with trust. And for me, that's that feels really important, but seems to be missed by many organizations when it comes to seeking grants.
Clemencia Osa [00:05:22]:
Yes. I totally agree with you. I know that, many times, we want to assume what the donor wants and we want to, try and wait until we are perfect. But there are also donors who are quite good with cocreation. They would look at what you have as a draft and, give you insights on what is going to be the winning proposal. And that can only happen if you brand yourself as an impact creator, and you are also creating value for the beneficiaries. Because always in projects, you're responding to a social need. And And if you're responding to a social need, then you also have beneficiary voices.
Clemencia Osa [00:06:00]:
So many times when you've already put together beneficiary voices, then you are able to appeal to many donors when they see that, for example, now I work for Women's World Banking, and we are talking about financial inclusion for women. So if the women that you want to inter include, the women entrepreneurs are able to say, yes, digital financial services are what we need for us to go to the next mile for us to create jobs and also to respond to societal needs in terms of economic development, then many donors will be happy to respond to such a kind of thing. So they will do a lot of cocreation, develop with you the theory of change. They will be able to develop the log frame, and they'll be able to even help, build your capacity when it comes to measuring impact and also reporting.
Craig Pollard [00:06:47]:
Tell us a little more about Womens World Banking. Tell me tell us more about what they what the aims are and what you're trying to do and some of the challenges you face funding.
Clemencia Osa [00:06:56]:
So one of the things that, we do at Womens World Banking largely, we are responding to the fact that close to a billion women in the world are not financially included. They are not included in the financial, the mainstream financial services. And so you find women are not able to access loans, women are not able to, receive insurance services and all. So we work to ensure that we do a lot of research to identify those needs of women and also identify enablers such as digital technology, which has been proved to be a way of, making more women access financing, especially in the global south. So that is what women what women's world banking aims to do. We are also involved in a lot of advocacy, policy advocacy. And so, some of the challenges we receive is, of course, like any other organization, the funding is not enough. So you need to, cut more donors, if you will.
Clemencia Osa [00:07:52]:
You need to acquire more donors. You need to be, to take good care of the resources that you have. So, yeah, that that's what banking is about. Interesting. It's about 45 years now. We are celebrating our 45th year this year. It was started by a group of women, globally in 1979. So it's quite, an old organization, so to speak, if you compare it to other organizations that are in the financial sector.
Craig Pollard [00:08:20]:
Yeah. Amazing. And do you have because grants and proposals, that that sort of it's sort of easy to silo that as to say this is a separate thing. But but in reality, the the proposal is just a tiny part of the process of of how, how how funding is received and, you know, the donations are grown. There's so much around the proposal. Right? And and so for for me, it's always been important to think about a holistic approach. You know, thinking about a trust, a foundation, a a global institution, etcetera. But taking a a sort of much more human approach to funding and building these personal relationships, building, creating partnerships is an important part of this.
Craig Pollard [00:09:08]:
Right? How do you go about doing that on a sort of practical day to day basis?
Clemencia Osa [00:09:15]:
Yeah. So thank you so much. That's a very, good question. We use a lot of approaches, and, I've been with with Women's World Banking for just a year. So I wouldn't say I'm the most competent person to respond to that question. But what I've seen happen is we have a lot of, events with the donors and these events are usually around the anger, like the United Nation General Assembly in September 1 is upcoming. And when those assemblies are there or the commission on the status of women, which happens around March, around the International Day of Women, and because we are focused on women issues, then we take opportunity, such advocacy moments to be able to bring our plight to the potential donors and also the current donors. So we bring donors together, and these events are usually themed.
Clemencia Osa [00:10:05]:
So, like, the last time we had a team around helping a particular women entrepreneur called Divya. So then rallying, donors, our current donors and potential donors and asking them to come to the event. And during the event, we present the work that we've been able to do in the year. So, like, the past year, 2022, 2023, what we were able to achieve, how many women we've reached with advocacy, with research, how many women we've reached with the financial products and the and the partners that we've been able to create during that year. So in those events, then we are able to strike deals. So certain, donors who come, potential donors are able to be interested in a few streams of the work that we do. Like, I've already mentioned, we are involved in quite a number. So for example, if we have people like Vista, who is already our donor, then they're able to introduce other donors and those donors are then able to identify what they want to support.
Clemencia Osa [00:11:02]:
I know that some of them are interested in supporting unrestricted funds. So like organizational development and capacity building of staff, but there are others who are more inclined towards specific products. For example, just ensuring that women are digitally included in the financial system. So on a day to day basis, that's one. The other one is just encouraging our donors to visit our programs. So we have programs all over, but, mostly, we have them in the southern, the global south. So you find donors going to Indonesia, going to Southeast Asia, going to Africa, and also to maybe, Europe and certain areas in Latin America. And that is based on what their mission is and who they are interested in helping.
Clemencia Osa [00:11:46]:
So we've seen a lot of geographic forecast. Recently in March, we also had a donor event in Addis, Addis Ababa. And this is because one of our greatest donors was, coming to Africa in a big way. And because we have a presence in Africa, we're already working in Nigeria and Ethiopia. We were able to convene partners. So that's that's how we engage with those donors. There are many other ways, but those are the ones that I can't remember at this moment.
Craig Pollard [00:12:12]:
And are most of your donors are most of your donors, based in Europe, North America, or do you have donors who are are based in Africa, based in Southeast Asia?
Clemencia Osa [00:12:24]:
Yeah. We have donors who are global. For example, Bill and Melinda Gates, They are a global foundation. You know? But they have branches. So they have, offices within Africa. They also have offices in in Asia, but most of them are based in the global north.
Craig Pollard [00:12:42]:
And what are some of the unique challenges that comes with understanding and and working with and stewarding and engaging donors that are in based in the global north and and quite far away from where you are in the work is?
Clemencia Osa [00:13:01]:
Today, Craig, I wouldn't say that there is a donor that is based far away. As you know, the world is becoming a global village. And so at the top of a bottom, you're able to agree and meet a donor. Like now we are talking with you. You are very far away. I am. Yeah. So I wouldn't say that the the challenge is because they
Clemencia Osa [00:13:16]:
are far away. This challenge would would mainly be difference in ideology.
Craig Pollard [00:13:25]:
That's what I was getting at. I was thinking geographically, but also ideologically far away.
Clemencia Osa [00:13:32]:
Yeah. So if if donors are ideologically far away, then you it is your duty as a fundraiser to bring the donor to align. Education. I know you know that. And what I have done in my past is, I have dealt with volunteers. So they get to learn what the organization is doing and they want to really support the organization, build mentorships and streams of work together with the persons that are in the beneficiary organizations. So, you can align that. But I think the the difference is if you find a donor who feels that they know more than the beneficiary, then that becomes a difficult, point.
Clemencia Osa [00:14:17]:
And this you can see when they
Craig Pollard [00:14:19]:
And how do you manage, but how do you manage that? How do you manage that when a donor thinks they're, you know, from Europe, North America? Because I've, you know, dealt with that as well. It's it's not easy.
Clemencia Osa [00:14:29]:
Yeah. It's not easy. So sometimes, my experience is sometimes you have templates that you need to fill. For example, if you are doing a proposal. So you have a template, and sometimes the template is not live to the context you are working. So they may require certain information that you're not able to obtain based on where you are, like in Africa, maybe. You are not able to get that particular kind of information or the information is not packaged the way they want it. What I do is let them know that this information is not possible and then offer alternatives.
Clemencia Osa [00:15:01]:
So you say, you need this IR, this number, for example, but this number does not exist in Africa, especially if it's an address or something. But I can give an alternative. That's one way. The other way, which I think is extreme, is just not accepting that funding. And, they are very good tools. For example, the we call it the gift acceptance policy. So most of the times when I get to an organization, the first thing I do, if it's not there, is develop the gift acceptance policy and explain very respectfully to the donor that, these are conditionalities that we are not able to meet. So, unfortunately, we are not able to take that kind of funding.
Clemencia Osa [00:15:40]:
But some other times also, you need to come to a compromise with the donor and give what they require because, sometimes the organization depends on that funding for you to move on. So there are all these flexibilities.
Craig Pollard [00:15:53]:
Yeah. It's it's not easy because a a gift acceptance policy can be can be quite a blunt tool
Clemencia Osa [00:15:59]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:16:00]:
When it comes to rejecting funding. And it's sort of often, used as a as a last resort when it's when it's really potentially problematic and Yeah. The the donor can't see that. But I think there's a there's a the space in the middle, which is sort of respectful conversations about understanding why. And I think donors get it. And, you know, I I I was speaking to an organization that is really keen to fund work in Papua New Guinea, but the the brilliant organizations are working in forestry, and they are unwilling to accept anything from from from this this funder. But they sort of this is just the way it goes. So I think donors are quite quite used to that.
Craig Pollard [00:16:41]:
So it's not something to be, I think, shy about when, when it comes because it probably won't be the first time that their funding has been rejected.
Clemencia Osa [00:16:48]:
Yeah. But also it's also interesting that donors are coming together in philanthropic groups. I know you know. And they are getting a lot of education in those philanthropic groups, and some of them have also enlisted the services of grantmakers. So those grantmakers, perform the duties of informing them and also letting them know what the changes are and any obstacles they they risk. I know they also get challenges from the people they support. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:17:16]:
It it's interesting, isn't it, right, these sort of philanthropy groups? Because I because I part of me looks at them and thinks, who is who is who are the people educating these donors? Because what I see in many of these philanthropy groups are are people who look a lot like those philanthropists
Clemencia Osa [00:17:33]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:17:33]:
Educating them about how to donate. And it it feels like a a sort of vicious cycle, and I I feel like there's so much space for for more better representation from the global south within those conversations and within those circles.
Clemencia Osa [00:17:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you've rightly put it. I think they're a bit elitist, for lack of a better word, and it's good to start from somewhere. I wouldn't say that, I would not throw the baby with, bath water. I would say it's good to start from somewhere. Unlike, I don't know who is operating on a singly.
Clemencia Osa [00:18:09]:
If they come together, they're able to change perspectives, and they are also able to exchange experiences. Some of them have also had bad experiences because some of them have given money and it has not been stewarded properly and they are shy. And that's the reason why some of them put those templates together and those rigid measures, which is understandable. But, I think it's an opportunity to be explored by people like you, fundraising radicals and other groups to make the donors understand and also maybe to develop some training modules and materials for them so that they are not swindled. Because donors have also not had very good experiences sometimes.
Craig Pollard [00:18:44]:
Yeah. And but do you think to to the donors that you talk to, do they have what's their appetite for risk? Is it is it high? Is it does it does it depend? Is it growing?
Clemencia Osa [00:18:58]:
I think it's an individual donor kind of thing. For donors who have gone through bad experiences, like those whose money has not been used properly, they are changing their appetite and they're becoming less and less, open to risk. The donors who have had good stewardship are increasing their risk appetite, and they are also donors who are just from the way the organizations are set up. They're just risk averse. Like, when I was working with Brook East Africa, it was both a donor organization. We were giving funds to animal welfare organizations in East Africa. And still, there was a lot of risk averseness, yet nothing else had happened. It was just the way the organization is set up that you have to go through so much due diligence for you to be able to, onboard a beneficiary.
Clemencia Osa [00:19:49]:
So I would say that. I would also say that, with the, AI and the technologies, there is likely to be increased risk appetite. But, I think this is subject to research. I've not read any research, but my own opinion is there is likely to be that because the AI is going to really facilitate knowledge sharing and also acquisition.
Craig Pollard [00:20:14]:
Yeah. You you mentioned earlier sort of, like, a case for support. And I know that you talked during the panel, which was a really interesting conversation, about the the enablers of fundraising, the things that you need to get right to to make fundraising possible. Can you share what those sort of things are? What are the important tools that really matter and make a difference when it comes to being fundable?
Clemencia Osa [00:20:45]:
Okay. So there are number of things. And for me, I would look at it like, what is your mission? The course that you're championing, how does it align with the other courses within, the larger global discussion? Because we know that now the debate is around climate change. In Africa, we are talking about education and health as being the key, like, the top top funding goes to education and health. There is an emerging, area of governance and also, environment, but largely, it is health, education, climate. So are you aligned to those? There is also, a lot to do with children and, emerging noninfectious diseases like cancers and all. So what your mission is is likely to position you for funding. The other thing is, your goals.
Clemencia Osa [00:21:40]:
What goal are you contributing to? Are you contributing to the goal of reducing the, you know, the global warming? So that still goes back to climate change. Are you increasing the number of children that are able to access education and access health care? So those goals. The other thing is your objectives, the financial, your financial capability in terms of how are you reporting, what is your reporting like. So if somebody goes to your website and they're able to see your reports for the last maybe 5 years, if you're an organization that has been in existence for long, And they can ascertain that actually your finances, your reports have been audited, and there is really some transparency. So transparency is one of the other things that enables. The other enabler is you're involving constituencies, different constituencies, like involving the beneficiaries, involving the donors. For example, some of your donors are in your board, and so they can speak for you. The other thing is your storytelling ability.
Clemencia Osa [00:22:44]:
You know, donors don't just want you to give them statistics. Statistics sometimes are boring. But if you can rally them around a specific, change that you have made. For example, if you're an organization working on drug abuse and you can demonstrate that quite a number of youth have abandoned the practice as a result of the work you're doing, that's another enabler. I think the other enablers now are things to do with having a website, having a social media presence, which is great because everyone, goes to social media. And some of the donors go to social media to see what you're doing. So that demonstrates your impact, and your impact is what actually goes out there before you. Yeah.
Clemencia Osa [00:23:25]:
So those are some of the that I can think about.
Craig Pollard [00:23:28]:
It's interesting, isn't it? Because you talk about sort of a case for support, case for investment, but actually and and it's and and reports. Right? They're not Yeah. The these documents don't sort of exist by themselves because pretty much everything you put out there, intent whether it's social media, whether it's traditional media, is part of your reporting as well. And and and it's part of you making the case for investment in your impact. So it's it's incredibly important. And it comes to that first point you mentioned, which is this this the clarity of the mission, the clarity of the purpose, your values, etcetera, and making sure everything else sort of cascades out of that and is consistent because the consistency of the story is also important. Yeah. It's so in terms of thinking about sort of storytelling and telling stories of impact, how how do you talk talk about the impact today at the moment of the work that you're doing?
Clemencia Osa [00:24:32]:
Yeah. It depends on what the donor requires. Some donors want reports that are written in certain ways. But if you're targeting the larger majority, because many times, it is the many people, the public that will always, vet the work that you're doing, then just those change stories, most significant changes because you will always have several stories. But you can always pinpoint one story that is a turnaround, One that really speaks about everything that you do as an organization that puts a beneficiary at the middle of what you're doing, and those stories are best told by the beneficiaries themselves. So having the beneficiary mention the changes, of course, not, not gagging them or telling them what to say, because sometimes you find someone asks the beneficiaries what to, what to say. But if it can be authenticated and you can go deep down to the grassroots and document that story as they go about their normal duties. For example, if you're a water organization, and they can talk about how they lived before they were able to, receive the services of clean water and what they are able to do.
Clemencia Osa [00:25:43]:
So you'll just be able to see how they've maybe organized their farm because of the presence of the water, how their children are going to school, the way they look, you know, the photos they have taken after that, kind of intervention. So that's, I think, the best way to demonstrate, through stories.
Craig Pollard [00:26:00]:
And and photography is so important in telling these stories. Right? It's I always talk about just like, yes. You know, the words and the applications are one part, but it it's so important to to to capture and to document the work where you can with photography because that is that's an incredibly powerful medium when it comes to reports, and proposals that I think is often underused. Yeah. But video film, film as well, if you if you can. And and I and I think people's tolerance nowadays you know, if 20 years ago, you need a fully produced film, but now you can just, you know, grab clips Yeah. On on a smartphone. And that's fine to share that with donors.
Craig Pollard [00:26:43]:
Right? Because I think there's something about the the the formal reporting, you know, every quarter or every half year or annually. But there's also something very rich and and sort of relationship and partnership improving in that sort of informal reporting. And I just wonder if you have sort of if you do that and if you have examples of of of where you've sort of been able to report inform me, and that's how that's helped the partnership.
Clemencia Osa [00:27:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. A lot. I worked with a donor called Rabbi Light Trust. And with Rabbi Rabbi Rabbi Light Trust, they were interested in such sorts of things. So what I did is we were able to develop storytelling hubs within the communities that were beneficiaries of the programs. And the communities would just take photos of what was happening and what changes they were seeing and send to the donor directly, which I think is the best way to do because then that means you're not hiding anything from the donor. But many times, as agents of organizations, we would want to do that on our own.
Clemencia Osa [00:27:45]:
I also know that, the quality of the photo is important. So sometimes you are forced to bring in someone from outside to do that. Like currently, we have quite a number of photos and short videos from Indonesia, from Nigeria, from Kenya, and we are sharing those with the donors. So in every, like, once every quarter, when you're communicating with a specific donor, then you're able to put links of what was happening, maybe an activity, a short, you know, like, a 20, 12 second video of what what was happening in an activity. So, yeah, that's that's that would be
Craig Pollard [00:28:20]:
And and as you said, they're they're probably following your social media anyway. So so making sure all of that stuff is on there as well and that it it's community centered and community owned authentic. Because this is about building trust Yeah. Across the board. Yes. If you're enjoying this conversation and would like to hear other global perspectives on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit sector, then please do subscribe using the links in the show notes. If you wanna find out more about our work, please do visit our website fundraisingradicals.com. Now, back for the conversation.
Craig Pollard [00:28:58]:
Alright. I remember you also talked in the panel session about creating I think you said something about creating a constituency for fundraising and philanthropy.
Clemencia Osa [00:29:08]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:29:08]:
You something you have to build.
Clemencia Osa [00:29:11]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:29:11]:
Can you tell me more about that?
Clemencia Osa [00:29:14]:
Yeah. So, creating a constituency is, important. And what you need to do is, identify any linkages with the organization. So identify who have been in the organization. And, you'll be able to identify maybe board members, previous board members, founders, previous staff, current staff, beneficiaries, and all, and just identify how you want to include them. So for me, I talk about the onion. I don't know if you are familiar with the onion or just arranging them in sort of, concentric circles. So in the middle of the circle are the board members and the management.
Clemencia Osa [00:29:53]:
So you have the board members, the current board members, and the current management that forms the core because that's where also the business development director sits. Then the next level is the staff and, former staff of the organization. After that is the organizations that do similar work with you and who partner with you. And then at the very end is the larger constituency where you have the communities. And each of these people are to be involved in different ways. For example, at the center, you'll need to have, your staff and board members introducing you to new people. So, like, you can have, brainstorming sessions where you sit with your board members and your management, and they're writing down the contacts that they know that they feel can support your organization. And then that is given to the business development person who then writes introductory and, expression of interest to the different individuals and organizations.
Clemencia Osa [00:30:50]:
And then you also look at which organizations have been, connected to your, your organization at some point or another, Identify key persons and then put them in your database. Reach out to them. I know now we have the, data protection, but reach out to them and find out if they're interested in reading your newsletter, for example. And once you have a key database, then you can be sending out information to them. They would be, maybe accepting different things to do. For example, coming to visit your programs or sharing your message with others. Constituency. So once in a while you can have an event, either virtual or physical event, and they could come and bring in someone.
Clemencia Osa [00:31:29]:
So in that way, you are building a larger constituency, and you are not leaving out the beneficiaries. So that's how I look.
Craig Pollard [00:31:38]:
And it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be very complicated, does it, as well? Having you know, talking about a database, it can actually be a very simple thing. It's just about understanding the the people around you and and and recording that. It's not you know, I think a lot of people sort of get overwhelmed by the idea of a database. And but keeping it simple is is is is an important first step. You you talked about all of those layers of onions. You talked about, volunteers as well just earlier. And volunteers are are fundamental, aren't they? I mean, in terms of whatever the cause is, they can be such powerhouses for and and and powerful advocates for for your organization. So can you can you tell us how how do you engage, empower, and excite volunteers to act on your behalf?
Clemencia Osa [00:32:32]:
Yes. So as you rightly say, Craig, volunteers are very important. And, I have seen that most of the donors that I have retained throughout my career have been donors that have been volunteers. So one of the things that, I do or one of the things that I encourage organizations to do is to develop job descriptions for volunteers. For volunteers. Sometimes we think that volunteers should just work. So first of all, we need to have job descriptions for this volunteer. We need to train them, and we need to also expose them to the different, areas in which they can volunteer.
Clemencia Osa [00:33:05]:
Because sometimes you have for me, I want to give this particular example. You have, people who have retired and who have come back to the community, for example, and there are people who are doing good job. So you find somebody maybe who was a teacher or somebody who was an environmentalist and your course is environment. So this person has a lot of knowledge, and they want to also be part of the organization. So you need to develop for them a job description with clear deliverables and also have them sit down and say what they are able to do. So that's one. So for me, dealing with volunteers is first of all know who they are. Give them an opportunity to choose where they want to work within the organization, develop a job description for them, and have tangible requirements for them to deliver.
Clemencia Osa [00:33:51]:
But also ensure you have a plan for exit because somebody cannot volunteer forever. So there should also be a plan for them to exit and a plan for them to also bring in new new volunteers. And, many times these volunteers, if they belong to a certain level, then they're able to also encourage their peers to be part of the organization. So that's the greatest part that volunteers bring to the organization.
Craig Pollard [00:34:15]:
And and volunteers, I guess, are sort of hearts, the heart of the movement. Yeah. If you're willing to do this for free and and you're willing to sort of put your heart and soul into it, it's it's an incredibly powerful message because and it links back to your what you're talking about storytelling earlier as well is just like you it's about equipping volunteers to be able to tell their story of their interaction with the organization with about their connection to the cause. And that, it's way more compelling for somebody who isn't paid by the organization, like a fundraiser, for example
Clemencia Osa [00:34:47]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:34:47]:
To be talking about the organization in such a passionate way about the impact. Yeah. Who you know, somebody who isn't paid to volunteer, and that's that's incredibly powerful advocate and
Clemencia Osa [00:34:57]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:34:58]:
Important.
Clemencia Osa [00:34:59]:
That's true.
Craig Pollard [00:34:59]:
But it does it comes with its risks as well. Right? Working with
Clemencia Osa [00:35:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. There are many risks. And that's why I was talking about a job description and agreeing description and agreeing on terms of engagement because they may they may not if they don't understand the organization well, it's possible for them to say things that are not aligned with the organization's mission, or it's also possible for them to make promises that the organization cannot pick and you're That's what
Craig Pollard [00:35:25]:
I was gonna say.
Clemencia Osa [00:35:26]:
Yeah. And and also, if there are people who don't have very good reputation, so you also need to check Yeah. On the reputation of those volunteers that you're engaging. So it's not enough that somebody has the knowledge and the passion. It is also somebody who has a good background that can be associated with the organization.
Craig Pollard [00:35:44]:
And it's about value. Right? It's it's about understanding what you need as an organization in terms of value, but but also what you offer them and that connection with the cause. And that surely, that at its heart is is what fundraising actually is, about that very simple value exchange.
Clemencia Osa [00:36:01]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:36:02]:
But it seems so complicated.
Clemencia Osa [00:36:04]:
No. It's not complicated. It's it's just a plan that needs to be done very well. The assumption that volunteers are not paid should not be a reason why they are lapsed. They need to really say, I'll give maybe 10:10 hours of my time in the organization, and this is what I will be doing in the 1st week, in the 2nd week, and this is what I want to achieve. So it's also good for the organization to know what the volunteer wants to achieve. Because if you don't help them achieve their motive, then they may not also be quite, supportive or they will be discouraged and they can drop off.
Craig Pollard [00:36:38]:
Now fundraising is an an incredibly challenging profession. It's, you know, it's, we're we're sort of always in that space between our organization trying to make it fundable and and and the donor space. And it's it's, you know, it's it's it's difficult when your colleagues and your organization's relying on you to raise the funding. And and how do you how do you motivate yourself? How do you keep yourself going? How do you keep yourself sort of well in this what is an extremely challenging profession?
Clemencia Osa [00:37:13]:
Yeah. So one of them we mentioned during the discussion last week that, we need to be networked. And you need a team of practitioners around you that can help you navigate because all difficult situations, somebody has had them before and they've maneuvered. So you need to also align. You need to do a lot of continuous professional development. I think I mentioned to you that I'm a certified fundraising executive. Yeah. And so what I have to do always is to make sure that I'm developing my skills by going through different, sessions, learning from other people, reading, learning cases, and what has happened before, how people you know, it's like, Lou, what has happened before, how was it sorted? So that's really important.
Craig Pollard [00:37:56]:
Because it's changing so rapidly. Right?
Clemencia Osa [00:37:59]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:37:59]:
It's changing so rapidly.
Clemencia Osa [00:38:01]:
Yeah. And you also need to know your limits so you don't have a work. If you have a work, then you're not able to do much. You can suffer burnout very easily, so you need to take some breaks. You need to take some breaks and maybe have some travel or read some books or enjoy some movies. But I also think that, you need to be reputable among your colleagues. They need to see you as a voice of reason because as I had mentioned and my mantra is patience. So sometimes it may be so many no's within a a period of time, and that is likely to discourage you.
Clemencia Osa [00:38:37]:
But if you're the voice of reason and you say that one no is an opportunity to get to to the next working. So that's, that's it. But if you have an organization that has a proper case for support documented, like the goals, the governance, and everything else that enables fundraising is done, then there are cases where donors look for you and you don't have to look for funding. So that's that's what I always aim to achieve, that donors look for the organization that I work for.
Craig Pollard [00:39:05]:
And and that's interesting. Right? Because it it it's sort of, the easy side of fundraising that I think a lot of that that divides sort of those organizations that have the ability and the structures and and the sheer size, scale, brand, etcetera. Funding is attracted to them. It's sort of a that that gravitational pull when you get to a certain size. And I think there's a giant gap between those who sort of look to these organizations and think, we want that, but they don't have the brand. They don't have that sort of scale to be able to attract. They aren't that visible. So what are the and it's it's kind of demoralizing to look at these big organizations that are raising huge amounts of money, and it seems really easy because all of that what what do you say to smaller organizations that are maybe finding it difficult and looking at all of these organizations are raising huge donations to keep them encouraged.
Clemencia Osa [00:40:03]:
So, I also forgot in the last point to say that stewardship is also something you do as a fundraiser. Yeah. So proper stewardship and demonstrating impact is very important and also knowing when to ask. Sometimes when you ask too early, then you you don't receive the optimum gift. So you need to also know when to ask. So for these organizations that are just starting or that are finding it difficult, there needs to be a bit of capacity building. Let them learn from organizations that are doing it well. I know that can take time.
Clemencia Osa [00:40:34]:
But the other thing is the other forms of fundraising and, like, proposals. You don't have to do proposals if you've not reached that level. You could just bring people to an event and have individuals donate. You can develop some, small products. For example, if you're working in the environment sector and you have a breakthrough innovation, you can sell that innovation through your, websites and through your social media and all, and you can have a copyright to that. That's also a way of, getting funding. But for proposal development, then you have to make sure that you invest in the right stuff. And, also, you do capacity building and you brand your organization as an authentic player in the field.
Clemencia Osa [00:41:14]:
Because if the branding is not out there, people do not know you, then they are not able to give to your organization. And many organizations shy away from, branding or from being out there in the media, And I think that's how people get to know you. And if your course is relatable, then people can fund. So that's that's what I can say to those organizations. It may take a lot of time. It may take a lot of resources, but that's the best way to do it. I have a question for you, Craig. Can you give money to someone you don't know?
Craig Pollard [00:41:46]:
Can I give money to someone I don't know?
Clemencia Osa [00:41:49]:
Can you give can you give money to someone? No. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:41:52]:
I think that it's fundamental, isn't it, about Yeah. I can, but not a huge amount of money. Yes. Small amounts of money are easy. I think when it comes to giving big transformational amounts, it it it's part of the sort of instinctual due diligence to know somebody before you do that.
Clemencia Osa [00:42:18]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:42:18]:
Because that's about building trust. It's about it's about understanding what what the need is. And there are, yeah, lots of dynamics. But, yeah, it's it's it's an interesting one. Right? It's it's really important as a as a sort of fundamental thinking about
Clemencia Osa [00:42:33]:
Yes. So that's why I'm saying they need to get themselves out there. Let people know them. Once people know you and you are authentic, then they are likely to give even when you write proposals, especially if you now get experienced staff to do for you the proposals. So, like, it's a staircase experience. You come from somewhere to the next level. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:42:54]:
Of course. Yeah. And and, you know, there's no excuse for being shy if you if you deeply believe in your impact. If you feel have have that responsibility to to secure funding, to to have an impact in a community for a cause, you have to get out there. You have to be you don't have to be shouting
Clemencia Osa [00:43:11]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:43:12]:
As well. I think this is a misconception. You don't have to be shiny and slick to do fundraising. Right? The the the best fundraisers I've ever met are sort of, like, really awkward people with, like, holy cardigans and just, like, just but just how who are able to connect and have those just really exploratory, wonderful conversations that explore where world views overlap and and and what we could do together, where the shared ambition is, where the what are the spaces where the magic can happen. And for me, that's that's the important part of this. It's it's about just and and recognizing where you are. Right? You you might not be ready. You might not have the infrastructure, the the capacity, the capability to do ground seeking.
Craig Pollard [00:43:57]:
But I think there's a level of and patience comes comes into that again. Right? It's that sort of
Clemencia Osa [00:44:03]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:44:04]:
It just understand where you are, what you have, and and sort of work from there.
Clemencia Osa [00:44:10]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:44:11]:
And and accepting that. Not looking to these other huge, shiny organizations, which is they started somewhere as well, but saying, look. We're here. And this is our next step, that and our next few steps. And these are the people we're gathering around us. Let's just keep doing this and trust in ourselves that
Clemencia Osa [00:44:26]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:44:27]:
We're doing the right things.
Clemencia Osa [00:44:29]:
Yeah. And the other thing I forgot to say is you need to develop a fundraising plan. So if you are starting small, you need to develop a strategy and a plan. And, of course, your strategy will be informed by your weaknesses, your strengths, the threats around you, and the opportunities, and then you know how to balance the 4. So just keep to your side and know that this is a threat. Going for the big big funds within the next 3 years is a threat, and so we will just go for the small funding. And this is the kind of mix we need for us to be able to achieve our objectives within this time period. So that's really important too.
Craig Pollard [00:45:03]:
Yeah. Because it's about understanding your sort of competitive advantage. And and I I don't like that grant seeking is competitive because I see all of these organizations that could that are fantastic peers and doing brilliant work, that more collaboration. And and and I see donors trying to drive more collaboration, but there there's an inevitability about grant seeking that it's it's it's competitive pitting these organizations against each other. And I and I I just just wonder if there are other ways of doing this, you know, sort of like having these having these conversations coming together and and exploring and and making joint bids as well. Feels like, it it's it's something that that is increasingly happened as well through consortiums as well. And we talked about that Yeah. In the in the panel session, the importance of building partnerships Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:45:51]:
When approaching those. Because it it shows your credibility. Right? It shows your
Clemencia Osa [00:45:55]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:45:55]:
Network, the power of your partnerships, and and your sort of relevance and credibility.
Clemencia Osa [00:46:00]:
Yeah. So those organizations need to network, to be part of consortia, and also just to be part of the bigger picture. Sometimes you start with advocacy before you get into funding. Because if your course is really important and you're championing it, if your voice is out there, you'll be able to recruit more people to, to join your course. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:46:20]:
And advocacy is so fundamental. I think, you know, increasingly, we're seeing organizations that are are moving away from the program delivery, recognizing that, actually, they the bigger impact they can have is policy change, is is is shifting resources, pressuring, campaigning so that resources are put into these spaces. People organizing like governments and corporates, etcetera, that are doing that how that have those resources, pressuring them into that. But that's really hard to fundraise for Yeah. Advocacy work. Right? It's one of the hardest things to
Clemencia Osa [00:46:58]:
Yeah. And and that's what brings us to thinking about restricted versus unrestricted funding. Because if the donor gives you money and they say use the money to to create impact, and you're able to know that our impact will only come after 3 years after we have done advocacy for 2 years, then that's important because many donors also like when there is co funding. You know, it means that many people are buying into the the course. So then advocacy could be one of the things that an organization does in the first 2 years of existence, for example, and then bringing in more partners to support the other bit of the work. And with that, perhaps the government will also come in and support some of that, alleviation of that social problem.
Craig Pollard [00:47:41]:
Because, I mean, you know, governments, in Africa, like, incredibly short resource themselves. So it's it's a very difficult advocacy conversation and a very difficult balance to strike between sort of recognizing. You know, I I I I remember Lillian, so having been on both sides of the sort of government and and and the grant seeking. It's just, like, striking that balance between, and others I've spoken to as well. Just like that recognizing that the person on the other side of this conversation in whether it's the government of Malawi or whatever it is, doesn't have that resource. Again, they have such limitations of what they can do in terms of the policy advocacy side of things. So it it's again finding this balance, building that partnership, building those relationships, and and and exploring them and seeing what's possible as well. Right? It's it's it's a fine balance.
Craig Pollard [00:48:36]:
It's not easy.
Clemencia Osa [00:48:37]:
No.
Craig Pollard [00:48:37]:
But it it hit very similar to the fundraising side of things as well. Right? It's it's it's all very similar and all sort of universally applicable to these partnerships, these relationships. Yeah. You you mentioned sort of difficult some of the challenges of fundraising earlier. And I was just wondering, are there donors you've had real you you've really struggled with in the past that have made life difficult for you? And, you know, without naming names, Explore and share your examples.
Clemencia Osa [00:49:08]:
I don't know. I don't know if this is the most difficult, but I know that, when Adona changes Midway, when they change their course midway, for example, if Adona was funding advocacy and then they stopped funding advocacy and your running program is on advocacy, All the stuff you have are advocacy. Their capacity is in advocacy. And now the donor wants implementation. That that has really, frustrated me in the in the past. And, you have to now let people go and bring in people with the capacity because, you know, funding is given in batches. So they say they they're not bringing the other batch unless you're ready to implement, and the agreement was midway in. So, yeah, that that's that I found a very frustrating kind of, very, very yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:49:54]:
Incredibly frustrating because that momentum when it comes to that funding is incredibly important. Right? If you've invested 2 years in advocacy, you're not gonna see the impact on for probably for at least another year or two. And it's such a, it's deeply frustrating when that happens.
Clemencia Osa [00:50:11]:
And the other thing is, it's this is not a donut per se, but a staff of a donut who insists that you have to give jobs to their cronies. That's also a difficult situation because
Craig Pollard [00:50:24]:
Does that does that happen a lot? Is that something that's common?
Clemencia Osa [00:50:27]:
Yeah. That happens. That happens many times. I think out of 5, you'd find it in 2. So it's like
Craig Pollard [00:50:36]:
That's 40%. That's a lot.
Clemencia Osa [00:50:38]:
Yeah. It's it's it's a lot. Yeah. And, but that is that depends on organizations and also it depends on individuals who work for these organizations. Some of them demand that you give, consultancies, you know, to them. So they give you the funding, but you make sure that this and this and this consultancy will be given to myself or to people that are aligned to me. So those are some of the difficult situations. I've not had very many difficult situations with donors, but those are some of the ones that I can cite at the top of my head.
Clemencia Osa [00:51:12]:
I would say that largely, it's been very been a nice experience working with donors, and this is because most of the don't donor organizations that I've worked with are more professional. So you don't find all of this. But, also, there is a time that we had a proposal, and, there was an indication of funding. So the donor came down and do a due diligent did a due diligence, but they didn't give a response. So they didn't fund, but they also didn't respond, which I found weird. I thought what they would have done, they would have just shared with us the findings so that we can verify. And this is where I talk about top down models. You know, just share with us.
Clemencia Osa [00:51:53]:
Let us know what are some of the findings you had that were, you know, eye, raising eyebrows.
Craig Pollard [00:51:59]:
Yeah.
Clemencia Osa [00:51:59]:
Then we are able to work on that.
Craig Pollard [00:52:01]:
It's, it's respectful. Right? It's just basic.
Clemencia Osa [00:52:03]:
Yeah. We can work on that. And then maybe if another donor comes, we are able to now respond. So I found that also very that was not very good. It was not in good faith because when you come to do a due diligence, definitely, you'll find either positive or negative results. When you find negative results or whatever the results are, please give them back to their beneficiary potential beneficiary organization to better them.
Craig Pollard [00:52:28]:
But, but also the amount of resource and time that you put in as an organization, put into those partnerships to to exploring, to to taking part in any due diligence, the information, sourcing it, sending it, that is a drain on resources, and it it feels deeply disrespectful.
Clemencia Osa [00:52:44]:
Yeah. Even organizing communities, you know, when they're doing the due diligence, some of them require very and there's no explanation. That's not very respectful. So that's also another experience that I think was not very good. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:53:06]:
Because that raises expectations within the community as well, and that further damages your ability to build and trust within your key core constituency. It's not easy.
Clemencia Osa [00:53:15]:
Even reputation. Yeah. Constituency. Because the beneficiaries are a very big constituency. They make the work happen, and they are the reason for why the work is happening. So if you don't have that good relationship, then it can can but can be damaging.
Craig Pollard [00:53:31]:
I think that's a wonderful place to end, Clemencia, is is is the community your it is your core constituency. Thank you so much for sharing today. It's it's wonderful to see you again and and massively appreciate you taking the time and joining us here today on the podcast.
Clemencia Osa [00:53:49]:
Thank you so much, Craig. Will you share with me the link?
Craig Pollard [00:53:53]:
Of course. Once it's, once it's produced, we'll, I'll share the link and you can we'll put a post on. I'll tag you on LinkedIn, and you'll be able to, share it to your friends and colleagues and
Clemencia Osa [00:54:05]:
Okay.
Craig Pollard [00:54:06]:
Family and everybody else who wants to see.
Craig Pollard [00:54:08]:
But thank you so much. It's wonderful to see you. And thank you so much. It's it's, yeah, really appreciated.
Clemencia Osa [00:54:15]:
Thank you very much, Craig.
Craig Pollard [00:54:17]:
Okay. I'll see you again soon. Okay? Take care and keep in touch.
Clemencia Osa [00:54:21]:
Bye.
Craig Pollard [00:54:22]:
I hope you've enjoyed this conversation and all of this season's conversations as much as I have. Huge thanks to Clemencia for sharing her experiences and expertise of seeking grants for nonprofits across Africa.
Craig Pollard [00:54:37]:
And a massive thank you to all of our podcast guests for this season who have brought new perspectives that are helping to shape fundraising practice across the world. And in doing so, they're challenging the dominant global narrative in fundraising. I hope this season has helped shift your thinking when it comes to defining what and whose experiences and expertises are relevant when fundraising in these regions. If these conversations are helping you to navigate the challenging world of fundraising in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, please do let us know by email. It's always great to hear. It's hello at fundraisingradicals.com. If you have been inspired by Clemencia or any of our other guests, please do subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review so we can grow our reach and impact. As always, if you wanna find out more about us and our work, please visit fundraisingradicals.com.
Fundraising Radicals [00:55:32]:
But for now, thank you once again for listening, for joining our exploration of global fundraising, and we'll see you back here very soon for the next season of the Fundraising Radicals podcast.
